ACLU Seeks $400,000 for Ten Commandments Cases
ACLU Seeks $400,000 for Ten Commandments Cases Save Email Print
Posted: 8:28 AM Sep 7, 2008
Last Updated: 8:28 AM Sep 7, 2008

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LEXINGTON, KY -- A long legal fight over courthouse displays of the Ten Commandments could cost two Southern Kentucky counties nearly $400,000, reports the Lexington Herald-Leader in its Sunday edition.

In a motion filed this week, attorneys with the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky requested fees of $390,588 for representing people who challenged the displays in the halls of the Pulaski and McCreary County courthouses, plus $8,133 in expenses, reports the Herald Leader.

The request comes after the ACLU won its request for an injunction barring the displays. Congress approved rules decades ago under which the losers in civil-rights cases must pay the legal fees of the winners.

The goal was to make it possible for citizens and attorneys to pursue potentially expensive lawsuits to defend civil rights and uphold constitutional principles when government doesn't do the right thing, said David A. Friedman, the lead attorney for the ACLU on the case, the newspaper reports.

"It's a core economic principle for how everyone's civil rights and civil liberties can be protected and defended when government acts in a lawless way," Friedman said.

Mathew Staver, the attorney representing the counties, said he will argue that it would be premature to award the ACLU's attorney fees because the case is still pending, and that the amount they've requested is too high, reports the newspaper.

"It's absurd, in my view," said Staver, founder and chairman of the conservative Christian legal group Liberty Counsel.

The motion from the ACLU, however, said the request was not only reasonable, but conservative. The organization chose to bill primarily only for the 1,283 hours Friedman worked on the case since 1999, and did not include time that most other lawyers spent on the case, according to the motion, reports the Herald-Leader.

Attorneys bill by the hour. The motion requests an hourly fee of $300 for Friedman; that is well within the range attorneys receive for such work, according to the document.

If the counties do have to pay the ACLU's fees at some point, it's possible insurance would cover the payments. The lawsuit started in 1999, after local officials posted copies of the Ten Commandments in the courthouses.

The ACLU sued on behalf of residents in each county, arguing that posting the Biblical laws violated the First Amendment ban on government endorsement of a particular religious doctrine, the Herald-Leader reports.

U.S. District Judge Jennifer Coffman ordered the local governments to take down the copies. The counties later put up new displays of the religious laws with other documents such as the Declaration of Independence.

That was an attempt to define the collections as non-religious historical and educational displays, but Coffman ordered the counties to remove the Ten Commandments.

A federal appeals court said putting up the additional documents was a sham to cover the "blatantly religious" motive for putting up the Ten Commandments. The counties and school system appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, the newspaper reports.

A divided high court ruled in 2005 that the displays violated the Constitution, though it left open the possibility that the counties could cure their earlier problems in posting the Ten Commandments and someday put them back on the courthouse wall.

The counties have a motion pending before Coffman arguing they have done that. They passed resolutions last year making clear that a display of the Ten Commandments and other documents would have a secular purpose, the counties argue, reports the newspaper.

The ACLU, however, argues that the counties are trying to post the same displays for the same reasons as before.

The counties also are appealing Coffman's injunction against posting the three displays they put up earlier containing the Ten Commandments.

Copyright - The Lexington Herald-Leader
www.kentucky.com

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Posted by: Ha, Ha... Location: KY on Sep 12, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Seems like the non-believers get awfully defensive when their grand points are proven innacurate...

Posted by: A Location: R on Sep 11, 2008 at 03:20 AM
SO did all you "christians" miss the salem witch hunts and the puritans that founded this country? Obviously so huh? WHat about the horrible catholic irish that no one wanted 100years ago? Then JFK made history as the 1st catholic president. All you "christians" need to realise that the foudnign fathers were not baptists. They didnt share your over fed non social darwinisn views. Others wise theyd have laid belly up for gods will instead of doing something. How many great things have come from the vatacan? The crusades? Denial of the holocaust? Wana keep going?

Posted by: Ben response on Sep 10, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Ben, get any coin and check it. I am holding in my hand a 1942 Mercury Dime and an 1892 Morgan Silver Dollar. They both have In God We Trust on them. What web site told you this 1950s lie?

Posted by: Runnie on Sep 10, 2008 at 10:12 AM
ACLU keep up the good work, the right wingers in this country are so far out there.

Posted by: me Location: ky on Sep 10, 2008 at 10:04 AM
http://www.ten-commandments.us/promote/supreme_court.phtml check it out Bart,

Posted by: j on Sep 10, 2008 at 09:40 AM
They can't spend their 400,000 in hell.

Posted by: Robbie Perry Location: Danville, ky on Sep 10, 2008 at 08:52 AM
I believe that the aclu has already done enough damage to the american public. The fees must be paid I suppose, but judgement will surely come on those who oppose our Lord Jesus Christ!

Posted by: Rebecca Location: Hazard on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:53 PM
I think that the 10 commanents should be posted where ever anyone wont's it to be. This is what we was rasied to belive in. I think that it is not right to us that they wont it to be took down. I teach my kids about it like my parents taught me.

Posted by: Brenda Location: Lexington on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:15 PM
ACLU---bunch of atheists but when something happens, the first thing you hear is "Oh God, or oh my God". In God I trust and I believe they should also be in the schools

Posted by: Paul Location: Lex on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:46 PM
I'm just curious, If all the god fearing christians in here already know the 10 commandments, why in the world would you need them posted? How many of you have the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution posted in your churches? We see how the religious have screwed up Middle Eastern societies, you want fanaticism here? Burn them at the stake? Nice Christian thought there Mr. Edwards of Richmond.

Posted by: William Location: seky on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:54 PM
The Ten Commandments is signs along the highway that leads to heaven Jesus Is the only carriage that can take you there.

Posted by: For Ben Location: The more you know... on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:38 PM
Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865,Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto.The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. To read in more detail, go to:http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

Posted by: Aggie Location: Indiana on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:27 PM
James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." ANOTHER ONE: Patrick Henry, that patriot and one of the Founding Fathers of our country said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.LASTLY: Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

Posted by: Tommy White Location: Frankfort on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:01 PM
For a group representing citizens rights, they seem to forget about a large portion of who they also represent: christians! If they would put their efforts and money towards things that really need to be dealt with there would be far less fuss and far more things straightened out that really needs to be! ACLU get a REAL life!

Posted by: Rob Location: Lexington on Sep 9, 2008 at 06:47 PM
The ACLU fights the figts they only know they can win,they took the cases the should pay out of their own charitable support funds.If they sue for my tax money,I will countersue for al the time they have wasted in the courtrooms fighting useless battles.

Posted by: Bart Location: Harrodsburg on Sep 9, 2008 at 06:20 PM
To "Me in Kentucky." You don't know what you are talking about. The numerals I-X carved in the door of the Supreme Court represents the Bill of Rights. The First ten amendments to the Constitution. The stone work you refer to is Moses holding the Ten Commandments, yes. However he is also flanked by Mohammad, Caesar, Confucius, Constantine, and many other secular and religious lawgivers. No "most" of the buildings DO NOT have the Ten Commandments carved into them. This is a myth with no factual basis. The Founding Fathers went to great lengths to keep religion out of government. I for one will not question their wisdom!

Posted by: Yet again Location: KY on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:13 PM
Another example of Ten Commandments in court houses before 1950's:The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania contains large murals (10' X 8') depicting Moses and the Ten Commandments (the Hebrew Idea of Revealed Law), Jesus teaching the Beatitudes (the Christian Idea of Revealed Law), and Jesus Christ and Disarmament (International Law) painted by Violet Oakley and commissioned by the state of Pennsylvania and dedicated in 1927.

Posted by: JPB Location: KY on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:12 PM
An example of the ten commandments being in a courthouse before the 1950's: Apparently, the architects and designers of the Supreme Court’s building, built in 1935, did not foresee that its occupants-to-be would be stripping the public square of references to God because, throughout the Supreme Court’s building, representations of the Ten Commandments abound. I know you are going to say that a lot of those represent the Bill of Rights..okay...why would Moses be holding the Bill of Rights?

Posted by: David Location: Pikeville, KY on Sep 9, 2008 at 04:04 PM
I support the ACLU and the separation of all religions and the secular government and wish liberty, freedom, and justice for all.

Posted by: jackie Location: Hindman on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:03 PM
The ACLU is waht keeps the Muslum and other religious articles out of schools and courthouses, you religious right wingers really do need a good history lesson.Let's all pray they win this important lawsuit.

Posted by: DL Location: Corbin on Sep 9, 2008 at 12:34 PM
I am sick and tired of the ACLU. I want to see the 10 Commandments in any public building I am in. My rights are being pounded.

Posted by: ben Location: lex on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:48 AM
"In god we trust" wasn't added to US currency or the Pledge until 1950's. The more you know....

Posted by: me Location: kentucky on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:24 AM
how can anyone say to take down the ten commandments from court houses. and public places. when in washington DC the ten commandments are carved into the wood in the doors of the federal court room and in the stone work in the federal gov. building . most of the gov buildings in washington have the ten commandments carved into the very foundation of the buildings seems to me they wanted to to stand for enternity.

Posted by: Billy Location: Lancaster on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:06 AM
For the last 50 years I have seen this country go from good to bad. When are you people going to wake up? If we all used the TEN COMMANDMENTS as our daily guide lines, just think what a great country we would live in. Do you think that GOD is turning his head to all of this? One day we all are going to die. What are you going to say to GOD when you meet him face to face?

Posted by: Gwen on Sep 9, 2008 at 08:10 AM
The ACLU is so right here and I hope they win.

Posted by: William Location: seky on Sep 9, 2008 at 03:44 AM
Romans 8.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Posted by: William Location: seky on Sep 9, 2008 at 02:26 AM
What if we lived in a land with the Commandments reversed? Us see 1 Will thou have many Gods before Charity. 2 Will thou worship hand made things with no breath as thow they give life as God. 3 Will thou not be sincere to love when you speak of it. 4 Will thou work every day of the week with not one day of rest. 5 Will thou Dishoner your father and your mother. 6 Will thou murder 7 Will thou take the wife or husband of another to have sexual passions to your desire breaking the vow and trust of marriage. 8 Will thou steel take what you want 9 Will thou speak lies against your neighbor say he is guilty of a crime when you know he is not guilty be a false witness against him. 10 Will Thou desire to have other mens property's and wife and home and all he has worked for take it away as your own. This was a reversal to see for my self what a land would be like If the laws of God were questioned. or reversed, a Land without the laws Of God would be a place you could not live in.

Posted by: Gail Location: KY on Sep 9, 2008 at 01:46 AM
I'm just wondering if the ACLU laid their hand on the Bible and swore to tell the truth when they were asking to remove the 10 commandments?

Posted by: Walter Location: Steanrs on Sep 8, 2008 at 10:04 PM
One thing is certain, If it is good for America, you can bet the ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union) will be against it. All I need to say.

Posted by: Conley Location: @ large on Sep 8, 2008 at 08:44 PM
I can't put into words what should be done to the ACLU. If the goverment can't take care of them and keep them from running over things that a small group thinks is right. It's time people step up and take things in their own hands.

Posted by: Bart Location: Harrodsburg on Sep 8, 2008 at 05:48 PM
If this country was founded on religious principles, then why dosen't the Constitution say so? There isn't a single example of the Ten Commandments being placed in a courthouse until the Red Scare of the 1950's. Look it up! How about we institute some laws like putting you in jail for not baptising your baby? How about banning the sell of pork products whereas the Bible says that it is abominable. No shrimp either! Every single business must also close on Sunday. No hotels open. No resturaunts open. Your husband beats you up? Too bad. He is your ruler and you are supposed to obey him. Try doing what you are told next time! Next door neighbor beats their kids? Too bad! They should mind their parents! Looking to buy a new car when you have a used one that works just fine? Well that's coveting! How about a year in jail for that! I mean if we are going to post the Ten Commandments in the courthouse, then we might as well make them the law and enforce the penalty!

Posted by: jim Location: hazard on Sep 8, 2008 at 09:07 AM
Lets hope they win, if not them the Arabs,Indians and all other can then display theirs---------it's just a different GOD.

Posted by: bigboy Location: reality on Sep 8, 2008 at 08:37 AM
why not just ignore or not read the sign if you have a problem. i have a problem with all having only spanish speaking workers at mcdonalds so i just quit going. it is america you have the choice and in case you atheist f ers are paying attention get a life and f off.

Posted by: Virgil Edwards Location: Richmond, KY on Sep 8, 2008 at 08:15 AM
How do we not know that our courthouses 100 years ago didn't have the 10 Commandments out on display. Maybe it was never an issue before because we used to be able to take people like the ACLU and burn them at the stake. Now our sorry government has been allowed to be a government in which legislates from the bench and caters to special interest groups because they are afraid of losing thier job or accepting money under the table. How is is right to protect those who are not religious and can't stand to see that which tells them right from wrong but it is not right for people to exercise their freedom of religion which is protected in the constitution. Our very core laws were built around the 10 commandments. Or maybe these people would prefer it to be ok for their to be murder, and adultery and robbery I mean why don't we just go ahead and bring upon anarchy since the ACLU seems to challenge any law that is moral built upon essential religious beliefs.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 8, 2008 at 06:46 AM
The First Amendment should be allowed to be posted in public places. If you don't want to see it, don't look at it. This is so ridiculous, just like the whole smoking issue. In God We Trust!!! With all the technologny and everything, it just seems like the world keeps getting worse & worse. Times seem alot better 20-30 years ago.

Posted by: earwig Location: Prestonsburg on Sep 8, 2008 at 12:27 AM
We have the Supreme Court to thank for twisting the intent of our freedom of religion.....Remember folks the next president will probably nominate supreme court justices that will have an impact on our society for generations to come. Think carefully before you vote. What is more important..the price of gasoline or the demise of the very moral fabric of our country.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 7, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Looks like one of America's biggest terrorist groups strikes again.

Posted by: ACLU Supporter Location: Lexington on Sep 7, 2008 at 09:47 PM
Serves them right to pay for the blatent unconstitutional suck-up to the religious right. Separation of church & state means just that.How many times does a federal judge need to tell them that? The pocket book makes it sting. The pocket book make it hurt. The pocket book make them learn. so sorry, it's the only way they learn. It's the only way they comply.

Posted by: Diane Location: Mt.Sterling on Sep 7, 2008 at 09:40 PM
I wish someone would sue the ACLU for systematically denying our right to have "the free exercise of religion" which actually is in the 1st amendment of the constitution. They have also provided an avenue for our judiciary branch of government to create laws from court decisions. The judiciary branch of government was never granted the powers to legislate! The ACLU has done more damage by using court rulings to create unconstitutional laws better than any covert outside enemy every dreamed of. I think they all(the lawyers of the ACLU) should be disbarred and tried for treason.

Posted by: Steve Location: Lexington on Sep 7, 2008 at 08:34 PM
I agree with ManofGod who posted earlier, why do some people think it's that important to have the Ten Commandments posted in their courthouse? It's never been there before and justice has seemed to be served for hundreds of years...so why the sense of urgency now? It's because you are BOUND AND DETERMINED to shove your particular religious beliefs in the face of anyone who doesn't believe that, and in effect let anyone who enters that courthouse know that it is ruled by the laws of God and not the laws of the state or federal government. Now, that is illegal, unconstitutional, and very intimidating to anyone who doesn't believe in God. I personally am a Christian, but I can see where the other side is coming from. Our job is to show them Jesus' love, and all we have is crazy people acting like Jesus was crucified all over again just because they don't believe in Him. The ACLU is doing what it is there for, to protect the rights of ALL to be free of constitutional violations.

Posted by: A Location: R on Sep 7, 2008 at 07:00 PM
Well said Fred, well said. Imaginary friends cost real money that could educate kids but instead...

Posted by: Dean Location: Floyd County on Sep 7, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Someone needs to inform those ACLU "lawyers" and I use that term loosely, that this country was founded on Christian principles. Furthermore, if certain groups of people don't like it, ACLU included, they should pool all their money and buy their own country and set up their own government and see how long it takes for their government to collapse without using the principles set forth in the Bible. I'm so sick of those overly liberal crybabies whining over the Ten Commandments. Why don't they hunt another horse to ride for a while?

Posted by: Reality Location: Kentucky on Sep 7, 2008 at 04:32 PM
Looks like the Uncivil Liberties? Union is kind of greedy or else they think they are also the executioner and this is the punishment.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 7, 2008 at 04:17 PM
i got it on my wall try and move it from it..dont think u can..it makes me sick to see people taking god out of the country..my my and they say we got fredom..iraq is got more fredom then we do.

Posted by: Foundation on Sep 7, 2008 at 02:19 PM
The USA was founded upon Christian principles. Does it take a genuis to figure out that the 10 Commandments were part of the Chrisitan principles? If I were to say something against your religion God forgive me taht you come back and say something about my Chrisitanity. Think about this as the ACLU can stick their money where their mouths are if that is what makes them happy. However, the more that I think about it,the more upset I get as I think that our country being based on Chirstian principles is now in the dumps because of people like the ACLU.

Posted by: Sam Location: South Commonwealth on Sep 7, 2008 at 01:06 PM
The ACLU is supposed to be made up of lawyers who volunteer their time. Since when do volunteers get paid? Sounds to me like they are actually in it for the money, not their ideals. As far as protecting the citizens "rights", how about the citizens that will be hurt when their already poor counties have to cough up that money? The ACLU claims to be all for citizens rights. Only if they are in sync with their own agenda. In the McCreary case, the vast majority of the population supported the posting. Two people out of 17,000 were "offended".

Posted by: Carol Location: KY on Sep 7, 2008 at 01:01 PM
Obviously the founding fathers did not intend for the separation of church and state to mean that Christian references could not be posted in government buildings....Because....Look at many of the buildings in our US capital, many of the monuments, the Supreme Court building, etc..All have many references which defer to God as the higher power and sustainer. What that "separation" clause means (at least in part) is that the US was not to formally establish a national religion and force people to pay taxes to it whether they agreed with it or not. Study your history, people! That's part of the reason many left England and that "mother church" which they were forced to worship/pay toward regardless of their beliefs. NO WHERE in this concept of separation of church and state does it say or mean that Christians (or any other religion) cannot post or discuss or proclaim their religious beliefs or non-beliefs. It just means that the government cannot OFFICIALLY PROCLAIM any religion.....

Posted by: steve on Sep 7, 2008 at 12:19 PM
who the heck is the aclu blah blah blah!

Posted by: Nora Location: Martin county on Sep 7, 2008 at 12:04 PM
We all live by the TEN COMMANDMENTS...What is so wrong with it??? if you dont want to live by it, then DONT impose your stupidity upon the ones who does!!

Posted by: James on Sep 7, 2008 at 11:12 AM
Oh Yeah! The Anti-Christ-Lawyers-Union strikes again! Has any of our good citizens ever noticed the moral rot of our commonwealth? The Devil Cares for his own while the quest for moral values go unattended and left to the mercy of the Desolate One. They may take the Word of God off the Wall, but they can't take His love from the depths of our hearts. A better day is coming for Satan was defeated at Calvary, so the ACLU is following a defeated god of their own, I feel sorry for them and their affliates, I want no one to suffer such a fate, but I can't help them. They must utilize their own free will and the Lord must Judge acordingly.

Posted by: Larry Location: Lexington on Sep 7, 2008 at 10:40 AM
The ACLU can't lose at all. If they go to court and win or lose, the tax payers have to pay their fees. What a Freaking deal.

Posted by: ManofGod Location: Lexington on Sep 7, 2008 at 10:06 AM
As a man of God myself, I see this quite differently from radicals that think that posting the 10 commandments on every street corner will somehow make people obey them. I feel that the 400,000 dollars that will eventually be awarded to the ACLU would've been better spent by the counties helping the homeless, the drug scourge, children's healthcare, or a myriad of other things besides fighting to put an obviously religious display in a public building. In 2 of the poorest counties in Kentucky, it's good to see that those the people elected to represent would rather waste the tax money they are entrusted with to endorse a particular religion which may be followed by some of it's citizens than to do things with it that would help ALL its citizens who paid into them with that tax money. I love my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but I also choose to follow Him in the basic principles he taught throughout His life. Posting the 10 commandments on every corner while ignoring PEOPLE is NOT it

Posted by: Gil Location: Richmond on Sep 7, 2008 at 09:39 AM
"In GOD we trust". That says it all and the ACLU can go fly a kite.

Posted by: Fred Location: Lexington on Sep 7, 2008 at 08:53 AM
There you go, Geniuses... was it worth $400k of your tax dollars? Brilliant.

Posted by: Rick Location: Georgetown on Sep 7, 2008 at 08:50 AM
Once again the Always Crying Loser Union is sticking their nose where it doesnt belong!

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