Proposal Could Halt Mountaintop Removal
Proposal Could Halt Mountaintop Removal Save Email Print
Posted: 11:07 PM Mar 6, 2008
 Last Updated: 2:59 AM Mar 7, 2008
 Reporter: Peter O'Connor
Email Address: peter.oconnor@wymtnews.com
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A proposal that some say could halt mountaintop removal in Kentucky is expected to be voted on soon in the House Appropriations and Revenue Committee. Environmentalists love the bill, coal companies hate it.

Coal insiders say if the measure passes, it will slow any growth to Eastern Kentucky's economy but environmentalists say they don't care about more jobs if it means they have to bathe in and drink bad water.

Environmentalists say they are tired of getting bad water from coal companies.

"I suffer from that, where I live nobody has adequate drinking water," said Raul Urias.

Kentuckians for the Commonwealth Member Raul Urias says enough is enough and that is why he supports House Bill 569. The measure would prohibit coal companies from dumping dirt and rock from mountaintops into streams and valleys.

"Unfortunately I have to bathe in it, my family has to bathe in it but we do have a small amount of drinking water supplied to us through the coal company agreement," Urias said.

Others say the legislation will impose unfair restrictions on the coal companies.

"In the Bluegrass, they call it industrial development. In the mountains, they call it destruction," said Hazard Mayor Bill Gorman.

Gorman says it could hurt the region's ability to grow and create jobs.

"The development of the mountains has come by proper development and I'm not saying go out there and do anything, but I'm saying at the right place at the right time we're furnishing jobs," Gorman said.

Environmentalists like Raul Urias say more jobs is good, but not at the expense of others.

The legislative panel expects to vote on the measure soon.

The bill was scheduled to be voted on by the legislative panel Wednesday, but lawmakers say not enough members were present.
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Posted by: Scott Location: knox co. KY on May 4, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I live and work in the coal business as most of people do in this county and all counties around us.The coal industry is the only thing we have.I can think of hundreds of people I know personly that would be out of work if this bill passes including me.It real easy for someone to be against something then it ain't going to effect them.If all the tree hugger get there wish they should help bear the wait of thousands being out of work.The last thing we need is more people on SSI.Nothing you can do in life makes everbody happy but to listen to a few people and destory thousands to make them happy wouldn't make much sense either.This area only MTR has provided much more usable land.Instead of bluffs that you cant even walk up now we have pasture land,wildlife management areas,and absolutely stunning views.
Posted by: Angela Location: Minnesota on Mar 15, 2008 at 02:49 PM
Mountaintop removal coal mining must be banned, we cannot afford to wreck natural resources for cheap coal
Posted by: Caitlin Location: McAteer on Mar 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM
As a native of WV, I've seen what happens to the land after the strip mines have come and gone. The coal companies cannot restore millions of years of bedrock and thousands of years of old-growth trees and other flora. I've seen the resulting drainage (nothing in nature has ever been neon green) and while I'm no chemist, I can attest to the fact that whatever's coming down from those sites is NOT good. Finally, strip mining is not a permanent job. Once the coal's been stripped, the job disappears until another mine opens up on another hilltop. It's a quick "fix", a little extra money for people who will never see the majority of the profits the mining companies reap from their labor. King Coal is alive and well, and growing ever fatter off the backs of Appalachians.
Posted by: Erica Location: Phyllis on Mar 12, 2008 at 08:58 PM
This is directed at Pink John Deer. Please get your facts straight before you write anything. First the coal industry did have a say at the hearing. The coal assoc. president spoke along with some of their experts. Also, Those who are fighting this bill, live in KENTUCKY. Hence the organization KENTUCKIANS FOR THE COMMONWEALTH. Raul is my husband and he was raised in KENTUCKY. His family has lived on this land for over 150 yrs. Also my well water is contaiminated with arsenic and we HAVE a septic tank and the only above us is a mine. So Thank you for knowing all your facts. And another thing we are not trying to put everyone out of their jobs. We just want things done right. You apparently have no common sense either. I have bathed my daughter in water that had high levels of arsenic in it, now if you are a mother what do you think about that? I could not protect her. I cannot protect her from playing outside with coal dust and dust and noise. Thank you!
Posted by: The Pink John Deer (Part 2) Location: Laurel on Mar 12, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Their is evidence out there that after coal companies mine the land, they restore it to it's natural landscape.Land becomes economical, it can become farmland, home areas, forests, etc.The Coal mining industry isn't the one to primarily blame for bad streams.It's homes that don't have septic systems and let it run out into the rivers and streams!It's people who throw garbage, old vehicles, chemicals into these waters. The coal mining industry cleans that all up! They are not the ones responsible for regulating people to have septic systems, for keeping junk out of the streams and rivers.Why doesn't these Environmentalists and State do something about this, instead of trying to blame the coal industry and put nearly 18,000 coal mining employees out of work.The Environmentalists and some government officials apparently does not have much common sense when it comes down to such subjects.Environmentalists are just out there to try to take down the coal mining industry with no real reason.
Posted by: The Pink John Deer Location: Laurel on Mar 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Without the coal industry, many taxes that coal company employees pay in would be gone, thus eventually affecting the whole state of Kentucky.Plus, if that bill is passed, that would basically mean that people couldn't even build driveways on their own land, highway departments couldn't make any new roads to benefit counties, etc.Also, it is not right that environmentalists, which many of them probably don't work, judge coal companies when some of them actually have their own property leased to them to mine to begin with.Plus, waiting for a House Budget Committee meeting when the coal representative isn't present to hear what the committee's discussing and taking a vote for!That's not right!Also, Californian Environmentalists have no business trying to judge Kentucky coal companies when they don't even live in the State of Kentucky!Without coal, many products wouldn't exist, example, Charcoal, Batteries, etc.Type in any search engine the uses of coal.Coal produces electricity for homes!
Posted by: CAS WAUGH Location: Maryland on Mar 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM
I wish the poll had been available longer. I have been educating others in Md regarding the devastation that MTR causes. I would think that WV and KYs tourism boards would have more to say re: the destruction of land, air , water , fish and wildlife. Instead of spending thousands of dollars to come up with new state slogans, WV and KY should save their time and post billboards: WEST VIRGINIA and Kentucky -- For Sale This says it all
Posted by: Donna Location: Barbourville Kentucky on Mar 11, 2008 at 09:29 PM
Mountaintop removal is something that I myself strongly disagree with and would like to see it stopped. People doesn't need more flatland or always have to use coal there are other resources that they are coming up with everyday to help end Mountaintop removal. I feel the government should not approve of this seeing that is will only hurt everyone than help us...there are only limited amounts of coal in the world when it runs out what is the world going to do then? Thats why i think that they should start thinking of other resources of energy to start doing and trying now. They are many other things they could start and by the time the generation right now is in their elder ages we could be running off of something more healthier to the enviroment and people...so i say they should stop mountaintop removal and try something else!
Posted by: snowbunny Location: eastern ky on Mar 11, 2008 at 05:29 PM
Can a paper of TV station or a newspaper report the news and be unbiased if a lot of their advertising dollars are coming from the subject of their news report? Has anyone ever thought of this? It just occurred to me. LOL Case in point, the above headline. The real story is about saving our streams and waterways.
Posted by: Flat Land Location: Pike County on Mar 11, 2008 at 02:54 PM
Wanted: Developers for a parcel of flat land located on top of a cut-off mountain approximately 36 miles east of Pikeville. Electrical, sewer, water and road structures needed before development can begin. Tress, grass and other infra-structures also needed. Does anyone know what this would cost to put in place? Does anyone think about that when they're blasting the mountaintops off for a thin seam of coal in these remote areas? Who is going to develop this land after the coal company is gone? Will it be developed? Probably not. It will become another of those areas to populate with elk or whatever. In a few years all this wild-life will be starving because there will be so many of them and then they will hold a big old-fashion hunt to kill them off. Such a waste. But that's what we've become - a "throw-away" society.
Posted by: caring person Location: Pikeville on Mar 11, 2008 at 02:42 PM
As to camels in KY, someone must own some because I see them at Christmas time all over the place and like everything else they need to eat. Maybe they can roam freely on some of those"grassy" flat areas left behind from MTR then they wouldn't need a tax for them. OH but wait, they need water too to live..poor things, streams are all dried up or so polluted it makes them ill. Wait, there's a pond left behind for them and it will fill with water when it rains- but what happens when it doesn't rains for weeks on end and the ponds become stagnated and/or dry up. Sorry, poor things you're on your own. They did their job - they gave you flat land to roam on, dried up grass to eat on, and a pond that fills when it rains. What more could you want???
Posted by: Brenda Location: Phyllis on Mar 11, 2008 at 02:30 PM
I wanted to say a few more things. My dad was a coal miner and I too have worked for coal companies for 15 years. I have family and friends that are still miners and I love each one of them dearly. I am not against coal mining but I am against destructive actions that coal companies are allowed to do because of our governing regulations. Changes need to be made in these regulations and both sides, the coal companies and the environmentalist, need to get together and work together to make things right for the better of all our futures. There is a bigger picture here than most are willing to look at. We shouldn't be thinking of me or mine just for today but for all peoples living in these areas whether you are a miner or not. God gave us all resources to hopefully use with intelligence. Greed, unfortuantely, has led to destruction and in the end will be our downfall unless we take counter-measures to correct what we've been doing. Burying our live streams is not the answer.
Posted by: Brenda Location: Phyllis on Mar 11, 2008 at 02:16 PM
I've read a lot of comments here and would like to clarify a few things that have been mentioned. First most lands that are being mined are owned by the coal co. or a land company that leases it to the coal co. or even the government. It is rare that the property being mined is owned by someone personally. As to how the land is used after mining is however the coal co wants it used because like I just said they either own the land or a land company or the government. As to reclaimination they can just let their bonds go and not reclaim and someone else is left with the mess (such as abandoned mine lands for one). As to flat land being created for industrial parks, golf cources, etc. I don't see that any of that will happen on Island Creek or Millers Creek of Grapevine. With all the coal that has been mined from that area we still have a dirt/gravel road and unclean water. Where is our fair share of the severance tax money? This area sure isn't getting any of it.
Posted by: Ellen Sparks Location: Philippi, WV on Mar 11, 2008 at 11:35 AM
As a native West Virginian i feel strongly that MTR mining should be banned. I missed the poll, but i could get a petition or comments from many others here who feel the same. If i can help this cause, please let me know. Ellen Sparks elsparkie2@gmail.com
Posted by: mitchell Location: whitesville w.v on Mar 11, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Save the Mountains : ) Stop Mountain Top Removal.
Posted by: Lulu Location: Hazard on Mar 11, 2008 at 01:29 AM
By the way, could someone explain why we need a bill to excempt taxes on camel food? What is the current population of camels in Kentucky?
Posted by: concerned citizen Location: floyd county on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:07 AM
So Wes, I guess miners should have their jobs no matter what happens to the people who live here in these hollows and hills. I for one do not think that we should do anything if it hurts someone else, even if it does help others. I don't feel like being a sacrificial lamb so that you can have your job.MY husband has worked hard and we have saved and sacrificed to have our own home. I do not owe it to you to hand it to the coal company so that you can have a job. This is not the issue, the issue is about contamination of our water supply. And big coal's blatant lies about the repercussions of this bill, and people like you buying these lies, if you are who you say you are. Anyone commenting here could work for the coal company or OSM or be an owner of a coal company.
Posted by: Lulu Location: Hazard on Mar 10, 2008 at 11:30 PM
First of all I'd like to know where those legislators think all that lovely coal severance money they latch on to for thier districts every year comes from. Do they think it grows on trees? Would they be better off without it? That same money has paid for clean water for some of us in eastern Kentucky but not nearly enough of it comes back to us. We carry the whole state on our backs just like the coal miner has always done.
Posted by: Christine Location: Southern Indiana on Mar 10, 2008 at 10:57 PM
Though I don't live in Kentucky, some of my descendants came from Pike County, and I love to visit Kentucky for it's natural beauty. Having natural beauty that people want to come and see surely creates jobs as well. I am against MTR and think it should be banned. It does permanent damage to the beauty of the mountains as well as to the environment. The price people pay in ill health and environmental destruction is not worth it. Not all coal mining will end if MTR is banned. There are other ways to mine coal.
Posted by: Erica Location: Pike Co. on Mar 10, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I am writing again. I cannot understand how people still believe that MTR is the only type of coal mining. We were mining coal long before MTR was around. The only way this bill will end mining will be b/c of the big wig coal operators letting it happen. They have the money to do things correct but choose to cut corners and allow things to get by cheap. I am not an anti-coal person. I am just a mother who wants the best for her child and her families future. I am concerned for her health not materialist things
Posted by: Michelle Location: Halan on Mar 10, 2008 at 07:27 PM
Here are a few facts about MTR and surface mining. *Only a small percentage 7% of the Appalachian coal fields will be impacted by surface mining *You cannot surface mine WITHOUT the surface owners permission. The surface owner must agree on the post-mining reclamation *There are only 8 active mountaintop removal permits in Kentucky...only 2 such permits have been issued since 2005 In the 24 Eastern KY producting coal counties: --6055 surface miners mine 45.5 million tons of coal --$354,629,000 is paid in direct wages --23,000 trickle down or extra jobs --1.9 Billion in gross sales of coal (79.5% exported out of KY) --$1.5 billion brought back to east Kentucky were 85 cents on each dollar stays and circulates ---87 million paid in severence taxes ($43 million back to 24 coal counties) Why the focus on coal...the fill is no different than those needed for highway construction, real estate development, commercial development other mineral extraction and farming.
Posted by: Very Concerned Location: Hazard on Mar 10, 2008 at 06:43 PM
If this bill is passed, the only people going to be making money is the bankruptcy attorneys...
Posted by: Teaberry Location: West Virginia on Mar 10, 2008 at 03:56 PM
Wes, you say "There comes a time when the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Who are the many and the few you are talking about here? Perhaps you should consider that the needs of the many are ALL AMERICANS, including eastern Kentuckians and West Virginians, who need clean drinking water and clean air to live. What about the many who live in the coalfields and have water so polluted that they can't even bathe in it? Not to mention flooding problems, noise pollution, and air pollution from mtr mining. Despite popular belief, coal mining WILL NOT END because of this legislation. Coal companies want you to believe that it will because it will cost them a bit more to dispose of overburden, but mining will not end. There is way too much money to be made in coal for mining to go away. Think about it!
Posted by: raymond Location: ms on Mar 10, 2008 at 03:17 PM
I think mountain top removal should be banned. I do pray that our country can become energy independent of foreign oil and wish our sorry congress would do something more than giving themselves raises!! When it comes to the election-why would anyone think America is ready for a black president when every mug shot shown on the media is another black male rapeing and killing an inocent white girl! Don't know about you but this American is not ready for even a black VP, especially BHO. I would vote for Alan Keyes if he was the nominee but the blacks in our country will not vote for a good black man-he's on the ballot in MS but I'd bet every black in MS will vote for BHO, who is more against the black christian issues than the devil himself, there'll probably be some dead ones voting for him even.
Posted by: chris Location: Jenkins on Mar 10, 2008 at 03:00 PM
no mtr, no coal which means no elctricity,no jobs, no eastern ky. enviromentilists you better watch what u wish for.
Posted by: Chris Location: Phyllis on Mar 10, 2008 at 01:28 PM
I am a miner and I have to agree with the environmentalist that the destruction that MTR is doing to our area is slowing killing us. I've seen Fishtrap fill up with so much sediment in the last few years you can no longer get a boat up the backwaters. I've caught some fish with ugly spots on them and seen even more dead floating on the water. I have to ask myself, why is this? Where I work we do things that we know we aren't suppose to do but we do them anyway because we're told to and we need to work. I know that the co. doesn't care for me or this area, they just want the coal. When they are gone I'll be looking for another job. The stuff we do on site, like hydraulic oil changes, and the stuff that get in the stream from coal prep plants, like magnetite spills for one, are just two in a long list of destructive things we get by with. I never really thought about it before I was reading all this and now that I think about it - it makes me sick.
Posted by: Anonymous on Mar 10, 2008 at 01:27 PM
This is an important discussion for all of us to be having. So, I'm wondering why this story isn't listed in the "Most Discussed News Stories" list over on the left toolbar. It already has 10 more comments than the top story listed there. Let's keep this discussion going and let others know about it!
Posted by: Joe Location: Pikeville on Mar 10, 2008 at 01:16 PM
Why are people so quick to jump on someone they don't even know? I personally know Raul and he is a great guy. He was raised here, went to school here and works here. He doesn't smoke, drink, or run around. He is a devoted father, husband, son and believes in the Lord. What him and his family is going through is real. It's not made up. I ask each and every one of you who have spoken out against him in your comments to put yourself in a homeplace that you love, with your kids and wife, and see if you want to live with contaiminated water, dust, mud, noise and a stipped mountain. Their water wasn't contaiminated by sewage but by mining. I personally know they have septic systems at all the homes in that area. If these people were out for money or whatever they would have sued by now but that's not what they are about. They love the area they live and grew up in and they're doing what they can to protect it and help others to protect their homeplaces too. Shame on you all.
Posted by: Susie Location: Pikeville on Mar 10, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Where are coal miners going to go when the coal companines leave after they've mined all the coal they can get from here? There will be nothing left here for you by the way you talk now. There will be no retirement, no health benefits, NOTHING!!! You will move away to a warm flat area and live off of that state's welfare. That's what I predict. Kentucky has a lot to offer, if given the chance, to develop other substainable sources of energy to create our electricity. Coal is not the only resource we have at hand. Yes, we need it now but I'm thinking ahead for what my decendants will have a 100 years down the road, if this world stands that long. Water is a resource that we however can not live without. It is vital to our future to invest the time, effort and money to develop clean technologies where our energy in concerned. The stream saver bill is the first step in making the coal companies & government step back and take a good, long look at what really needs to be done.
Posted by: sue Location: grapevine on Mar 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I really feel for people in this area. I grew up here and I am well educated and I have traveled the world and it really upsets me to see how we can all turn on each other so easily. I want to ask all these anti-environmentalist what would you do for a clean drink of water if you didn't have any? Do you even know what is in your drinking water today? I doubt it. Just because you are on "city" water doesn't mean that there's nothing harmful in it. Do you even try conserving energy by turning out lights in a room when you leave it or tv off before you go to sleep? I doubt that too. I do take time to do these things. I don't smoke weed, or anything else for that matter. I'm not on welfare and yes my dad was a miner and he fought for the UMWA. Miners today here in KY don't have the union to back them and if coal prices were to drop today the coal companies would be laying your as* off because you are nothing more than a # to them. Where you would be then?
Posted by: Steve Location: Southern WV on Mar 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM
MTR is no more destructive than removing a mountiantop for mall development, airport expansion, etc. So why is mining always getting the bad wrap...the environmentalist have a "Cause" and labor and economic benefit "be(edited)". They dont care if high paying jobs are displaced or completely eliminated. Let the state economy go to shambles as thousands of employees hit the unemployment lines. I venture to bet the environmentalists would be the first to "Squall like a mashed cat" if they were without electricity for a few weeks.....Yes, I'm a surface miner, have been for 30 years.
Posted by: Wes Location: Hazard on Mar 10, 2008 at 12:01 PM
How many residents of Eastern Ky have felt the benefits of coal dollars. Do you have a family that works up on the mountain removing that black rock? How many businesses depend on the money that comes from coal companies and their employees. Do you know anyone who now has city water in their home thanks to coal severance taxes. How about some coal severance money for your local school district. Ask your local elected officials how many projects have been completed with coal severance monies that would not have been possible without MTR. How about that new Wal mart or the hospital on the hill. Maybe you have an Industrial Park in your community that would not have been possible without the benefits of Mountain top removal. Subdivisions spring up all over east Ky on old MTR sites. Beautiful Golf courses sit on a mountain top in Prestonsburg and Jenkins, thanks to MTR. How about Knott County's new Sports Complex. Just a few of the many things created in Eastern Ky thanks to MTR.
Posted by: Vicki D. Location: Pikeville on Mar 10, 2008 at 11:45 AM
If you are dependent on coal to feed your family--you may as well start looking for alternatives. How long to you think it will take to totally devestate the area at this rate? When the mountains are level and there's no money left to be had from the coal--the owners will leave before you can blink. All you will have left is ruined land and water. MTR helps no one but the pockets of the coal operations and the politicians behind them (not usually democrats as earlier mentioned either). When the beauty of the area is gone and it's ecologically ruined--who will want to live there and why would ANY jobs move in? Think about long term--not just today or tomorrow. If you really love the place do what needs to be done today before it's too late. Stop MTR now before it's too late to do anything about it.
Posted by: Wes Location: Hazard on Mar 10, 2008 at 09:19 AM
There comes a time when the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Eastern Ky. needs coal production. MTR allows us to get to coal seams that are usually too thin to deepmine. This bill will make it impossible to continue this type of mining. I ask those of you who say you don't want miners to lose their jobs "Where do these people go for work?" What happens to the businesses in your community when they don't have the coal miner and his family shopping in their stores? The answer to that can be found north of the Ky border in Ohio and Ind. I spoke with a family member in Indiana who told me that a factory that was a major employer in that town had recently closed. Hundreds of people had been laid off. Homes had lost 80% of their value. People were already starting to leave the area. This is the economic future that we will have if this bill is passed. I love these mountains and I want to continue to live here but what do I do if I cant provide for my family here.
Posted by: roan Location: harlan county, ky on Mar 10, 2008 at 09:07 AM
If all you folks that don't think MTR is bad for communities, people, and the environment (even though what happened in Martin County several years ago should be testament enough of this) and are so supportive of the coal industry should consider begging back those deep mining jobs. See how far these companies will go in increasing costs to provide you more jobs. Eastern Kentucky could see a coal job boom again, but it's guaranteed that it won't come from MTR. The profits leaving this region to line the pockets of the rich are alone a reason to fight MTR, when we're stuck with the leftovers from the coal companies- overburden, depleted streams, loss of mining jobs (Thanks, Chris Erwin for all those numbers), the ruination of coal heritage in this amazing place. Some one mentioned that this is like the civil war all over again in the mountains. You couldn't be more correct. It is so sad to see how pitted against each other we are, while the companies keep mining away our mountains and$
Posted by: Bill on Mar 10, 2008 at 09:06 AM
The democrats are trying to drive up the price of coal. Just like they have oil. They will be happy just as soon as we start to strave.Then have to beg for more goveremnt cks.
Posted by: Roger Location: Turkey Creek, Ky on Mar 10, 2008 at 08:41 AM
I am for Mountain top removal. We need the cheap electricity and our people need good paying jobs. This also helps our commmunities. If Mountain Top removal is done away with it will affect alot of people. We can find more ways to use the flat land.
Posted by: Erica Location: Pike Co. on Mar 9, 2008 at 10:37 PM
Please quit saying we are from other places. Just b/c my husband's name is Raul doesn't mean he isn't from here. Again his family has live othis property in KENTUCKY for over 150 years. His family has probably lived here longer than some of yours. We are not from CA. or anywhere else. We are from KENTUCKY!! Do you know how great that Walmart in Hazard is. There are parts of that property that are sinking b/c it was built on MTR site. Thank you. Quit hating on us. We are just concerned about our family, heritage, and our homes. We care about our families just like you all do. I am so sick of people calling us names and being disrespectful. I don't call you names. I just tell the story of what is happening to my family. Do not HATE the TRUTH. Hate the people telling the lies!!
Posted by: Just me Location: Hazard on Mar 9, 2008 at 10:13 PM
AMEN! They need to think about the electricity that our coal has made possible for them. I think it is soo unfair that other states can work and change the scape of their land all in the name of progress, but when we try it they call it devastation. People are complaining about sulfur and things in the water, but around here with so many coal seams sulfur is nothing new it has always been there. LET OUR PEOPLE WORK AND EARN A LIVING. I wonder how many of those tree huggers will be crying and wining about all the people around here going to the government for help when they have their jobs taken away from them??? A lot of the men around here have no experience in anything but the coal business...sooo it would be very hard to get another job anywhere else. It will not be as easy as some of you make it sound to find new jobs, because their will be so many new jobless men out looking there will be no jobs left to get.
Posted by: vicki morgan Location: Hyden, kY on Mar 9, 2008 at 08:00 PM
When you go to walmart in hazard, do you actually think this property has not been stripped. please let's get real. this is progress with jobs to go along with it. my fiancee is a hard worker and this is our bread and butter. just think about it, everywhere there is progress, this property has been stripped or had moutain top removal in the past. these so called tree huggers need to go back to california and worry about their states, with all the pollution and forest fires. leave us alone. we have to make a living too. the next time these tree huggers turn on the tv, turn on a computer etc. they should think about the coal miners because without them there would be no electricity...
Posted by: Erica Location: Phyllis Pike Co on Mar 9, 2008 at 04:11 PM
Sorry, but I keep reading such lies and cannot help but keep commenting. I want people to know that this bill WILL NOT take away jobs. I wish people would read the bill and understand what we (everyday normal Kentuckians) are trying to do. I know there are people, either working in the mines or have family in the mines, who are afraid to speak out against the wrong doings of the coal companies. I am not a terriorists. I am a Kentuckian. I love the mountains and the streams and the people. Please people you all know the truth about the coal companies. They are the ones that are not truthful.Please understand we are not taking jobs away. We want a better life for our families.
Posted by: Erica Location: Phyllis Pike Co. on Mar 9, 2008 at 03:46 PM
Again, I read untrue commments on here. First, Raul never said he/we don't care about jobs. That is WRONG. How do I know this, He is my husband and he use to be a coal miner. I really wish the media would quit making "environmentalist", who happen to be Kentuckians, look like bad people. We care about the environment, but we also care about our heritage and home and families. So Please quit making us out to be outsiders who want to destroy the MULTI-BILLION dollar coal industry. That is not what we are all about. I just want to raise my child in a safe, healthy environment without having to leave my homeplace. So again please stop the lies and hatefulness towards us. We are not trying to take jobs away. If anyone is taking jobs away it is the coal company, b/c doing things properly would take a few bucks away from the rich power hungry coal operators and they would then take it out on their hard working miners. That would not be my fault. Thank you
Posted by: Erica Location: Phyllis Pike Co. on Mar 9, 2008 at 03:09 PM
couple things, first Raul is my husband and he is from here. His family has lived here for over 150 years so don't anyone tell him to go back to where he came from, he is!! Second, I have to bathe my 4yr old beautiful little girl in water contaminated with HIGH levels of arsenic. and I don't think that anyone can poop out arsenic. sorry. We live surrounded by MTR. We have 2 creeks that have run for 50 years that have completely dried up. One of the creeks is about half the size it use to be. The representatives outside the coalfields are the only ones who can help us. Our reps are all tied in with the coal companies, and to quote rep. keith Hall, they can't "bite the hands that feed" them. So we need someone to help us, obviously it won't be our own representatives. We, KFTC, do not want to put an end to all mining, we just want it done in a proper fashion, and KFTC is not a group of outsider envioronmentalist we are the people of KENTUCKY. KFTC is a member run organization. Thank you
Posted by: Ground Zero Location: Boone WV on Mar 9, 2008 at 02:02 PM
A person ask me one day... Do you really think you can stop mountaintop removal? ... I had to respond by saying do you really think you can keep doing it? How many mountains are to many? We as society have currently leveled over 470 mountains in Appalachia for energy.. www.ilovemountains.org find your connection... See for yourself www.ohvec.org
Posted by: Charley on Mar 9, 2008 at 12:12 PM
When you're looking at who supports this bill and who doesn't in the legislature, you'll find many of the non-supporters, even those "from eastern KY", are bought and sold by the coal companies, own stock in them, have an interest to maintain that is not the interest of the people.
Posted by: Conall Location: Rochester, MN on Mar 9, 2008 at 11:10 AM
I worked in southern West Virginia and saw how the water and the the homes of local people were devistated by mountain top removal. It's unfair to persons who have made their homes there for generations and its destructive of our earth.
Posted by: Hope Location: EKY on Mar 9, 2008 at 09:53 AM
The real terrorists are the men who are blowing up the mountains, destroying their neighbors homes and water wells, and forever destroying the Appalachain mountains. They are not miners...they are heavy equipment operators. If you can't find a job here without destroying the very place where you live...then YOU get out! The people who actually love this place will find a way to make a living.
Posted by: Fannie Location: Charleston, WV on Mar 9, 2008 at 08:29 AM
More jobs can be found-maybe not as well paying-maybe better. The land can be used to produce other income, but not without water. How long do you think the mines will supply water after the coal is gone?? You can't grow a garden with bad water contaminating your food supply. Yes, I live in Charleston, but I lived in 1993 where I grew a garden and was told by the health department "don't use that well water even on your garden." Ask yourself,"would you be happier to live like your grandparents with clean air, water, and food or have 3 and 4 wheelers and other toys for a few years?"
Posted by: Chris Irwin Location: Knoxville Tennessee on Mar 9, 2008 at 12:03 AM
In Kentucky in 1979 there were 47,190 people employed in mining. In 2002 that number had dropped to 17,042 people. That’s a loss of over 30,148 mining jobs!3 And coal production during that period? In 1979 Kentucky produced 67,067,653 tons of coal. In 2002 Kentucky produced 131,402,797 tons, almost double the amount of coal, with close to 1/5 of the jobs. How is this possible? It is the nature of strip mining. Strip mining by its very nature erodes and destroys miners’ jobs; it is the death knell for mining unions and more traditional deep mining techniques. Strip mining does not generate coal jobs, it destroys them. As coal from strip mines begins competing against coal from deep mines, the earth is stripped of its coal and the miners are stripped of their jobs.
Posted by: Hillbilly Location: Clay County on Mar 8, 2008 at 11:19 PM
If you knew anything about the government you'd know that often the only way to get a bill introduced is to bury it within another bill. That's why this bill's language was disguised within the camel food bill. This is done all the time. The coal companies use these methods ALL THE TIME to get through loopholes and now they're mad because they've gotten a taste of their own medicine. I am tired of everybody talking about KFTC, too, because I'm not even in KFTC and I'm against MTR. Just because you're anti-MTR does not mean that you're a member of KFTC and it also doesn't mean that you're against coal miners. If people would read and educate themselves they'd know that MTR actually takes job away from this region. Look at this website to educate yourself before saying things that are not true: www.ilovemountains.org .
Posted by: Faye Location: Pikeville on Mar 8, 2008 at 04:43 PM
People in Eastern KY depend on MTR for their livelihood. The ones that actually work! Who is this guy that is so against it all the time. Does he have a job ? He must not because he wouldn't have time to always be speaking out against mining. So many people depend on COAL just to keep food on the table and that's why God put it here. What else would we be doing in this area if we didn't have coal? It is one of our natural resources and I think that we are using it not only for jobs but for ELECTRICITY among other things. People who live in warm houses shouldn't throw stones. What do you think is keeping you warm? Coal mining is what our ancestors did for a living and we should carry on that tradition, no matter if it is dug from under the ground or on top of it.
Posted by: VERY concerned citizen Location: hazard on Mar 8, 2008 at 04:26 PM
this is pitiful. why would anyone want to do this?!?! the goverment is already complaining about how teastern kentucky is pour. but if this happens this area will ne DEAD. 99.9.9% of our area is connected to the stip mine some how weather there working there or a loved one is. alot of our businesses are going to be closed & everything. i think this is bullcrap! try looking into our water arent you worried about wat your drinking. like maybe sewage in the water! maybe they need to look at that.
Posted by: One worried mom Location: Hazard on Mar 8, 2008 at 03:48 PM
People...have your water tested for sewage and chemicals from your neighbors sinks and washers. I can bet that you'll find more of that type of thing in your water than anything else that you are raising a stink over. Do you realize that our area is going to be DEAD if we lose all our mining jobs. ALOT of us will have to file bankruptcy, and will lose everything. ALOT of or businesses will have to close because most of us will not have the money to do any business with them. Pushing something like this will only cause our people to suffer more than we do now. People talk about how poor our part of the state is right now. If we lose our mines then we will be a heck of a lot poorer than we are now. That means more families that have to get help from the government, because all their work experience was with mining. This will only cost the almighty tax payer to pay out more money to those that can't find work and hasno othe choice but ask for the governments help to survive.
Posted by: concerned citizen Location: floyd county on Mar 8, 2008 at 03:05 PM
Oh, by the way, I do not oppose shopping centers or Wal-Mart. But I doubt seriously if they would build a shopping center here on my hollow. It is too far out in the boon docks. We have a one lane road. If you meet someone you pull over and let them pass. But one can't get too far out to get away from coal companies.
Posted by: concerned citizen Location: floyd county on Mar 8, 2008 at 02:55 PM
I am from Eastern Ky and I do have a septic system. No I do not have city water. That is not my fault.It is not available to us. There are no water lines on my hollow. But there are plenty of hollow fills. I do not smoke, but I breathe plenty of dust rolling from the strip mine every time a coal or rock truck rolls around the hillside. And I hear the constant sound of dozers and heavy equipment 24/7. My house has been shaken 3 to 4 times a day by blasting, But the OSM inspectors say the cracks in my ceiling are not from blasting. Yesterday a coal company person sat in a neighbor's driveway and stared at me. Then he went past my house revving his engine. Last night someone was sitting in front of my house staring into my living room from the road. Coincidence, I think not. I stated before we have refused the coal company offers. This is the way you are treated if you don't lease to the coal companies.
Posted by: Kenny Location: Pikeville on Mar 8, 2008 at 01:55 PM
It is ironic that all the Bill's sponsors represent areas that are outside the coalfields and therefore they have never seen first hand the positive impacts on economic development and job creation associated with MTR. Let's let the members of the legislature from the coalfields decide whether this Bill needs to move out of committee. Maybe we coalfields residents need to start a campaign to prohibit any further development of lands in the Bluegrass area because it offends our aesthetic sensibilities, destroys wildlife habitat and diminishes water quality. I sure hate to see any more horsefarms turned into shopping centers and subdivisions !!! ---even though they are not my horsefarms!!!
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Harlan on Mar 8, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Yes...go the website.... www.kftc.org search the Canary Project and it's there in black and white that this bill is in place to stop mtr...not provide more jobs. I also don't think it's "to the chagrin of the coal companies that the bill is being heard" I think it's to the chagrin of KFTC...this bill is attached to some obsecure camel feed bill....they are as guilty of any dirty tactics that they denounce the coal companies for...trying to sneak something in under the guise of something else.
Posted by: Pam Location: Sassafras, KY on Mar 8, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Why assume a person against MTR is not from here? How many of you supporting MTR have it in your front or back yards, or as in Raul Urias’case surrounding his home, 360 degrees. Be honest, we’ve been waiting on the coal companies promises of progress and riches for too many years. My grandparents were moved off their home place in the 70’s due to a strip job - the land has yet to be developed. The Wal-Marts and airports are few and far between, the hardwood forests have yet to reappear. The coal boom has reappeared to provide very few jobs and much destruction! Visit the so called industrial parks of Hazard, Jenkins, and Martin Co. Sure there are a few businesses there that come and go (Sykes). I bet locations could have been found on already stripped areas. The coal counties remain the poorest in the State. Coal is in our mountains -the law of supply and demand dictates King Coal should bow down to us – mine responsibly and safely when taking our coal supply, it is not infinite.
Posted by: Tim Location: Eastern Ky on Mar 8, 2008 at 12:02 PM
I am sick of environmental hypocrites. I recognized someone in your news report who had a bad water well. Guess what? They probably are like a lot of people in Eastern Ky and do not have city water, sewers or septic systems either. Their sewage goes straight into the creeks! Sounds awful, but it's true! And these are the same people who complain about coal companies polluting their water! What hypocrites! Some even complain about the air pollution and global warming while puffing on a cigarette! The second type of hypocrite are people who are not from here coming here to promote their own agenda. I have heard some of them say we Eastern Kentuckians are too dumb to know what is happening here. If you asked them if they oppose highways, shopping centers, housing developments, etc., they say "Of course not, that is progress". We should all go to Lexington and protest the next shopping center & hold up posters that say "I went to the horse farm and it wasn't there!"
Posted by: Butters Location: EKY on Mar 8, 2008 at 08:41 AM
The KFTC is nothing more than a civil terrorist organization. As a former surface mine inspector for the Commonwealth, I saw their tactics first hand. KFTC members make many frivilous complaints (to harrass coal companies) that must be investigated. I have been called out many times to investigate alleged tracking of mud and debris by coal trucks onto the highway. I arrived 10 minutes after the complaint was called in, and what did I find? A 2 cubic inch piece of coal on the road. Thousands of Commonwealth dollars and man hours have been spent investigating substandard well water complaints (alleging degradation by mining) with no merit. Want to know why Mr. Handshoe's sister's well has methane in it? Nearly all the aquifers in EKY are in coal seams and methane is a naturally occurring gas in coal seams, not a by-product of mining. She is not alone, yet others rarely complain. I hope OSM gets involved so the inspectors can do their real job. Be afraid of the KFTC...very afraid.
Posted by: Sherry Location: East KY on Mar 8, 2008 at 08:17 AM
I grew up in the mountains of eastern KY and feel that the landowner not a group of Environmentalist should decide what happens to his or her own land. Mountaintop removal has created pasture fields, cropland and house sites. It has also created land for shopping centers and parks and playgrounds. This type of mining is regulated and data shows that the streams are much cleaner now than they were 10 years ago.
Posted by: James Location: Magoffin County on Mar 8, 2008 at 06:57 AM
Don't we have to do our fair share to bolster the powers of China!? After all, if not be for China, we couldn't have Wal-Mart...we are tired of being a world super power and China is bursting at the seams to overtake and supress the USA...and "For a Few Dollars More"....these coal people are willing to help China do just that!
Posted by: James Location: Salyersville on Mar 8, 2008 at 06:40 AM
I like Mayor Gorman's comments...something along the lines of the lyrics of John Prine's song Paradise....."...they tortured the timber and stripped all the land...and wrote it all down as the progress of man.." Of Course, Paradise was a victim of the expansion of TVA along the Green River... yet, the 'progress of man' is still rampaging on!
Posted by: truman Location: e.ky on Mar 8, 2008 at 02:59 AM
the death of coal will not be the stream saver bill it will be coal it's self read around the net some say reserve's over stated by as much as 90% responsible mining will increase jobs, 40 yr's and million's of dollar's and man hr's and we have worse condition's now than when we started now tell me about progress and responsablity, never let it be said coal should have restrictsion,s
Posted by: Coal Miner Location: Paintsville on Mar 7, 2008 at 11:48 PM
Okay lets look at this mining this way if theres no coal mining in Eastern ky what are they . GAS well yea but now think no coal miners no nothing but a ghost town . I think If they dont like mt.top mining dont look at it and go back wherevere you come from ppl . Because now thats where our FUNDS come from dont mess with our mining and go else where dummys
Posted by: Sick of lies Location: Hoskinton on Mar 7, 2008 at 11:31 PM
I am sitting right here in Hoskinton, in the very heart of Eastern Kentucky, and I am against the way MTR is done, as are many of my friends and family. Now that the Stream Saver Bill is getting seriously looked at the coal industry is running scared and spreading lies. I am just surprised that the news would help to perpetuate these lies since the headline on this story is so misleading. This bill is not to "halt mountaintop removal mining" as the headline says. This bill is to keep the coal companies from dumping waste in the streams. The only people who will pay any price if this bill is passed is the coal companies, NOT the workers. There are a few good local coal companies in Eastern Ky but most of the coal taken out of here is taken by huge corporations headquartered all over the world. I am proud to be a hillbilly and it's time we stand up for ourselves and quit letting these big companies tell us what to do and what to believe.
Posted by: S Location: Eastern Kentucky on Mar 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Since it was made public that the Stream Saver might actually be heard before the legislators--much to the chagrin of the coal industry, since they thought sure they had all the legislators under their thumb--the coal association has come out in full force to feed lies and rumors to the people of Eastern Kentucky. Gorman says ending MTR could hurt the region's ability to grow and create jobs. I say the coal companies have been able to do whatever they've wanted to for 100 years and THAT sure hasn't helped us to grow or to create jobs. Come over here to Leslie County and see all the booming economy we DON'T have despite millions of tons of coal coming out of here for the last 100 years. Anybody who believes that letting the coal companies do whatever they want is misinformed and not thinking straight. Don't believe the lies of people who are taking money out of here and leaving us with nothing. There is a better way to mine coal, without destroying Eastern Kentucky.
Posted by: Pam Location: Sassafras, KY on Mar 7, 2008 at 10:15 PM
MTR is our own Civil War in the Appalachians. It pits neighbor against neighbor. Just because I speak out against MTR does not mean I am anti-coal. I am against the burying of streams (no matter the kind), the destruction of mountains, the ruination of peoples' health and homes, and unsafe roads. I am for clean water for all, good paying jobs (I bet most miners would switch jobs if they were here and paid equal $/benefits), mountains majesty, clean air, renewable energy sources, and safe roads. We can work this out together. Kentuckians For The Commonwealth (KFTC) gives people a forum to do just that. Go to their website, www.kftc.org, and see what they are all about. Attend a chapter meeting. Put all these thoughts to positive action. By the way, I've been a member for almost three years now and I have yet to hug a tree!
Posted by: AC Location: Corbin on Mar 7, 2008 at 09:45 PM
i strongly urge our lawmakers to pass this proposed legislation into law. strip mining is evil.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: knott on Mar 7, 2008 at 09:30 PM
Why Are WE ALL STILL USING WELLS FOR Water? any way...Why don't we have city water? If we all had city water then we would have cleaner water..this is not MTR falt..we are drink and bathing in dirty water it is are counties....
Posted by: Mary Location: Ky on Mar 7, 2008 at 09:20 PM
I really have not read about this issue as far as all that is involved but my thinking without reading about it is this...I thought Eastern Ky was finally going to be able to find a use for these mountain tops, besides other things, a means for tourism attractions. And some other posts were concerned about cancer causing agents...I wonder how many of them smoke & if they worry about cigarettes causing cancer? And how many purchase processed foods & know that cancer causing agents are included in preservatives?
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Harlan on Mar 7, 2008 at 06:10 PM
Check out the KFTC website...Canary ...no opposition to coal hmmm..... The Canary Project....Here are a few quotes, "Now we are canaries warning everyone about the dangers of coal before it's too late", "The Canary Project is building a better future beyond coal. We are building awareness about the dangers of coal......." "Mountain top removal is the most destructive type of mining, it needs to be stopped and we plan to stop it". Don't fall for the idea that more jobs are going to be created. It's rather obvious when you look at their site what their intentions are. By the way some useful information was found while there...the bill is going to be voted on this Tuesday...contact your representatives and so no to this bill!!!!!
Posted by: Sara Location: Hindman on Mar 7, 2008 at 06:04 PM
@Glenn: The Stream Saver legislation was brought up in the House Appropriation & Revenue committee by Chair Harry Moberly after introduction by Rep. Don Pasley because Rep. Jim Gooch, the chair of the Natural Resources committee, has not allowed a hearing or a vote during the last three years that the bill has been introduced in his committee. Jim Gooch, from western Kentucky, has close ties to the coal companies--he owns a business that builds and repairs buckets for mining machinery. It is in his own personal interest to repress the bill in his committee. The stream saver legislation that was attached to the innocuous HB569 is co-sponsored by 10 of the 29 legislators on the A & R committee. It is not radical or subversive or secretive that this legislation has been attached to a camel feed bill, but rather is a sad reflection on the corrupt state of much of the politics in Kentucky that they had to do this maneuvering even to have a simple hearing on the matter.
Posted by: Anna Location: Paintsville on Mar 7, 2008 at 05:40 PM
I'm tired of Coal Companies too! They have been blasting and destroying homes. Saturday a blast was set off and a huge Elm tree landed on top of my home and destroyed it. So was that a act of NATURE? I think not, these blast have been getting worst since January, something has to be done!
Posted by: Mike Location: Prestonsburg on Mar 7, 2008 at 05:37 PM
It is sad when a group of bleeding heart rope smokers who refuse to leave the 1960's have enough influence on an unknowing and unwilling to learn generation to create a situation such as this. There are more acres of pavement in Fayette county than there are acres of MT in the entire state. Once earth is under pavement is doesn't become green again. Mining has left eastern Kentucky acres of usuable "green" lands. Go by a new urban sprawl being built in the bluegrass, what does that look like? I'm tired of watching the beautiful bluegrass go under pavement for ever. Please get some facts and meet me in the parking lot for a fact throw down. I'll guarantee that your facts don't hold water....heck you don't even know the correct definition of a stream. Get a life children.
Posted by: Glen Location: Eastern Ky on Mar 7, 2008 at 04:30 PM
I am familiar with this bill, too, and it is a blatent attempt for a radical environmentalist to get his way. They are tacking this bill to a bill that is really about tax exempt camel food! Really! Check it out. HB569. But we all need to be very concerned about these people. We all love this earth, and need to do what we can to help it out. But banning mining & banning coal fired power plants is not the answer. We must save the country before saving the world! If these people get there way, we will all freeze in the dark! Then the arabs will just step in and take over. Energy is what built this nation, and we need to keep our energy here and keep producing it here. We must be free of foreign oil first, then find ways using technology to produce energy as clean as possible. By the way, every camel owner I know does not need a tax break on their camel food. That is what this bill is really about. They just tacked this environmental propaganda to it.
Posted by: Lyle Location: Hazard on Mar 7, 2008 at 04:02 PM
I appreciate WYMT’s coverage of the Stream Saver Bill. The impact of the coal industry on our lives and communities deserves careful analysis and discussion among all of us who live in this region. I wanted to alert you that there are two important errors in the story. First, Kentuckians for the Commonwealth (KFTC) and other environmental groups DO CARE about the lives of coal workers and their families. We know that if it were not for a job in the coal industry, many families in the area would have to leave to find work elsewhere, or go on welfare. Enactment of the Stream Saver bill will NOT lead to a decline in the number of coal industry workers, and may actually increase it (see Sara’s posting). In addition, the demand for our region’s coal will remain very strong because this nation and the world depend on it to generate electricity. Over the next 20 years or so, our nation will have no alternative to coal for generation of much of its electricity. In addition, the Stream Saver bill will improve the condition of our streams as a source of recreation (swimming, fishing, etc.) and drinking water, and it will also help protect our unique and valuable mountain forests. An improved environment will benefit everyone in the region. The second error relates to the spelling of Mr. Urias’ first name, Ruhle. He grew up in the coalfields of Pike County, and worked in coal mines for a number of years.
Posted by: Wayne Location: Pikeville on Mar 7, 2008 at 03:44 PM
If Mr. Urias doesn't like his water why don't He move back to the northeast, where He most likely moved here from. This whole KFTC organization got started after a coal company accidently destroyed one their "weed" patches, and they still haven't gotten over it. That's why they're so strong against mining.
Posted by: Carlos Location: Hazard on Mar 7, 2008 at 03:25 PM
Mountain top removal is absolutely on of the best things to ever happen to eastern kentucky. We now have places to build hospitals, shopping centers, airports, and housing that doesn't get flooded every time the creek gets up. It also helps in organizing municipal services like water and sewerage because it is relatively level. Those folks who think its wrong to put excess dirt and rock in a dry drainway should go look for themselves and stop letting people lead them around by the nose. Anybody with two eyes anb some common sense can tell its a ridiculous situation. You should also realize that stopping the hollow fill process for mining will carry over to road construction, industrial development, and house site construction. When you need to make a fill for a school or build a four lane roadway,,, remember this. There will always be people against progress of any kind but hopefully common sense will prevail.
Posted by: Tammy Location: Hazard on Mar 7, 2008 at 02:57 PM
Mountain Top removal is very important to Hazard and Perry Co. Thes people have to have these jobs to shop at Wal-mart, buy cars, buy gas, What would all of these people do if the people working at coal companies lose their jobs they would decline in their business too! If you think it doesn't matter take a drive thru Neon, Ky. My parents thought it would always boom when the mines were there but they are gone and it is a very different now place from their teenage years. think about it. when the lights go out and you are cold.
Posted by: CJ Location: PIKEVILLE on Mar 7, 2008 at 02:43 PM
Mountain top removal is a safe and efficient way to extract coal. Sediment structures and water testing are required by law to make sure water leaving the mine site meets standards.
Posted by: Mike Mullins on Mar 7, 2008 at 02:12 PM
MTR is an abomination to the land and people of eastern Kentucky. It is already illegal to conduct MTR unless the coal companies get a waiver for says the land will be used for future development. The Army Corp has given these waivers even though there isn't any type of planned development. I'm the son of a coal miner and I want to see the coal mined in a safe and responsible way. Strip mining and MTR mining are not labor intensive ways of mining coal and the lasting results of destroying the water is criminal. Every time there is any opposition to what coal companies want those against the abuses of coal companies are labled anti-coal. I'm not anti-coal, I'm anti MTR when there isn't any type of develpment on the area mined. If I wanted to live in the flatlands, I would move there but I want to live in these hills. Coal companies cry wolf everytime there is anything that will cut into their profits. But they continue to mine coal!
Posted by: Doris Location: Big Branch, Perry co on Mar 7, 2008 at 01:01 PM
If Mr Gorman had to look at the stream that runs by my house each day I think he would change his mind. The epa nor the coal co is admitting they know what is causing gypsum to form in this stream. If that is what it is. However we know that high levels of sulfates, magnesium and phos. are present. The stream has filled up with a crust about 18 or more inches. Grass is growing in the stream, leaves are sticking together and it has a funny color to the top of the water. Mr Gorman, I want to know: Which is most important- long term health problems for the people living below this stream or a little of money for a season?
Posted by: Keven Couch Location: Hazard on Mar 7, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Response to Sara: You are correct it does not call for an end to MTR, however,if passed it would put an end to MTR. When rock is blasted the volume in cubic yards is generally increased by up to 1/3, this means you CAN NOT put all of the overburden back to its original contour. STREAMS ARE NOT BEING COVERED UP! The definition of what a stream is, is where this becomes misleading. If everyone read the definition of a stream, as defined in this bill, you may understand more about what is actually going on. Websters definition of a stream: 1: a body of running water (as a river or brook) flowing on the earth; also : any body of flowing fluid (as water or gas). This bills definition: and in no event shall the spoil material be disposed of in an intermittent, perennial, or ephemeral stream or other water of the Commonwealth. This is not what the general public considers a stream, if this were the case then all of us have streams on our property when it rains & this would violate the law
Posted by: Anonymous on Mar 7, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Kentuckians for the Commonwealth is a grass roots organization that deals with social justice issues in Ky with over 5000 members. No where in our legal reporting process to the U.S. Government,due to our non-profit status, do we say or imply that we support any type shuting down of the mining industry. For the knowledgeable citizens of Eastern Ky. this coal industry rhetoric has been repeated over an over an over for the entire time coal has been mined. For us older citizens we can remember coal companies crying when the UMWA tried too organize, the coal industry has bought legislators,shut down certain mines,filed bankruptcy, ect. and there are no UMWA to be found in Eastern Ky. The employees therefore have no longterm benefits,this in itself has put billions in the coal barons pockets. Believe what you will, but in my humble opinion the coal companies aren't hurting and they could take some of those profits and hire extra employees to clean up there destruction
Posted by: concerned citizen Location: floyd county on Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM
I wonder if you people would feel the same way if your home was being shaken 3 times a day from dynamite blasts and had to live with a valley fill above your home which could slip and cover your home at any time. This is not a bill to stop mountaintop removal. It is a bill to stop the coal companies from dumping rocks and dirt into valleys and hollows thereby filling streams completely. I live here on a hollow with 9 valley fills with ponds above my house. Anyone of these could break at any time and flood my home. If your husband is truly a miner, he can tell you the truth about what he does on the job all day. I don;t feel I am obligated to give up everything I own so that your husband can have a job and we can ship coal to China. By the way I refuse to lease my land to the coal company. And we get constant harassment from workers and truckers. Would you kill me just to keep your job and take my land? The truckers are constantly trying to run me and my husband off the road.
Posted by: Depend on COAL Location: Eastern Ky. on Mar 7, 2008 at 11:22 AM
First of all if the people that are against MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL had a job that depended on this issue, they would not be for it. What needs to be done, is if you are for mountain top removal your power needs to be cut off and then lets see how long it takes you to be all for surface mining. The issue with putting dirt and rocks in a steam that only runs when we have rain is the most stupid thing I have ever heard of in my life, and the people that show these video's on TV of the surface mines only show the work in process they are to afraid to show the end results, look at the golf courses and the sports complex center in Knott co. that is a end result, that is jobs for eastern Ky. I'm starting to feel like these people that are so much against mountain top removal are afraid that it will open new jobs and they will have to go to work instead of sitting at home 5 days a week, working harder on coming up with ways not to get a job then they are working to find a job.
Posted by: Sara Location: Hindman on Mar 7, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Here is a summary of the bill directly from the Kentucky legislature, which you can read here: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/08RS/HB164.htm : "AN ACT relating to surface mining. Amend KRS 350.450 to change requirements relating to restoration to original contour of surface mines, and to require that when all requirements of the amended KRS 350.450 are met that the configuration requirements of KRS 350.410 and 350.445 may be altered, but that overburden must be returned to mine area to the maximum extent possible and that other overburden is to be disposed of in permitted areas or previously mined areas, and that no overburden is to be disposed of in the waters of the Commonwealth; amend KRS 350.440 to provide that no spoil be disposed of in the waters of the Commonwealth, and that any spoil not returned to mine area be disposed of only in previously disturbed areas on lands eligible for reclamation under the abandoned mine land program."
Posted by: Crystal Location: Corbin, KY on Mar 7, 2008 at 10:16 AM
I agree with most of what everyone else said. I want to add that the mining industry is highly discriminated against. What about the other industries and agriculture that lends cancer causing agents into our streams and groudwater? You don't hear about the laws needing to be changed or have inspectors at their farms every week. It is absurd. Surface mining for example-it's just wrong the way they are treated. A surface mine job is no different than any other excavation site. Why aren't excavation sites treated to the same safety and overburdened ridiculous restrictions? Just because coal is involved. And the environment and water, what are the water companies and treatment facilities for? I for one think surface mining is much safer than underground mining and the mountains are pretty but they are also constrictive to any sort of expansion and growth in the area. Yeah, the only ones hollering about this are the ones from central KY who don't have a dog in this fight.
Posted by: Sara Location: Hindman on Mar 7, 2008 at 09:46 AM
I'm familiar with this bill, and I'd like to point out the bill itself DOES NOT call for the end to MTR mining. The bill is misrepresented in this news article. The bill calls for the coal companies to dispose of mine wastes RESPONSIBLY. Rather than dump the overburden from MTR into streams, the bill requires that the companies put the mountains back to their "approximate original contour." That means that the dirt and rock that has been blasted will need to go back on the mine site, or an abandoned site, where it has less of a chance to leach heavy, cancer-causing metals into our streams and groundwater. The coal companies are acting like Chicken Little, claiming that the sky is falling. Yes, the bill will cut slightly into the profits of the wealthy folk who own the largest companies. But--importantly--it will create MORE work for the MTR miners themselves. It will create MORE JOBS for this area. Just like in our daily lives, any time you do something right, it takes more work.
Posted by: Michelle Location: Harlan on Mar 7, 2008 at 09:14 AM
My husband too is a strip miner and this bill would effectively force us to move from the area to find work. People want us to think this bill is about mountain preservation but it's about much more than that...it's about loss of jobs, loss of revenue, loss of population, higher energy costs and stopping any kind of progress in the coal fields. Coal is what we do, coal is what we know and coal is how we live!!! Everyone should contact members of this Committee...who by the way are mostly from Central Kentucky and let our voice be heard. We do not need people who know very little about our way of life making decisions for us.
Posted by: dawn Location: inez on Mar 7, 2008 at 08:34 AM
Do they not realize that mountain top removal is one of the main sources of income for most families in KY? My husband works on a strip mine and that is our main source of income. If they make them stop mountain top removal then I would probably lose everything I got because there's not any other jobs around here. People do not understand the consequences that could come out if that sort of bill is passed. Do these people also realize that this is where their electricity comes from? These men mine this coal underground and by mountaintop and ship this coal to our power plants which in turn makes our electricity that we use everyday. They ought to think about that!
Posted by: Lisa on Mar 7, 2008 at 08:05 AM
Complete eradication of mountaintop removal is not the answer. The mining industry is vital to this regions economy. In a recent article in the Hazard Herald, it says that the Challenger Learning Center at the Hazard community and Technical college is asking for $90,000 in coal severance money. By all means they should have it. In our society, continuing education is strongly encouraged. However, astronomical tuition and book prices make it impossible for some people to go to college. Even with financial aid, many people still can't afford it.We need mining dollars to help remedy the problems of this area. While I support the mining industry, I do agree that there should be strict enviornmental laws and harsh punishments for those who don't comply. We have to consider the impact that mining is having on our enviornment. There has to ba a way to continue mining and maintain the enviornment at the same time. Instead of fighting, both sides should find a way to work together.
Posted by: hazard resident Location: ky on Mar 7, 2008 at 05:47 AM
for the employees the process of mountain top removal is much safer than underground and if anyone has been on a mountain after undergound removal then you know what a mine break is. everything has it's goods and bads but I for one support mountain top removal as long as they do proper reclaiming.
Posted by: dewey Location: hazard on Mar 7, 2008 at 12:52 AM
get real people that's like taking the throughbred out of the bluegrass, cows off the farms because you don't want to drink the water that flows into those streams and then the tobacco farmer who uses fertilzers and the other family owned farms who do the same. in no way am i being critical of these kentuckians as just like the coal miners that are out there, out there from before the sun comes up, goes down, even in the middle of the nite while we are sound asleep coal miners are out tring to support there families like these other good kentuckians that work and worry to make a better way for the next generation. we coal miners are good stewards of the land we mine, others would rather people outside eastern kentucky belive that everything is done in a cavalier way, we have safety and reclaimation that are second to none. east kentucky can take care of ourselves, the tree huggers, legislators in frankfort need to think about the next time ther'e in an operating room and the LIGHTS go
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